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=== Discussion ===
=== Discussion ===
==== Hegel’s Theories ====
* Hegel is horrible to read.{{su|(L)}}
* Hegel is horrible to read.{{su|(L)}}
* Hegel left us various soundbites.{{su|(P)}}
* Hegel left us various soundbites.{{su|(P)}}
Line 85: Line 86:
* Marx was much more materialistic than Hegel.{{su|(S)}}
* Marx was much more materialistic than Hegel.{{su|(S)}}
* Russell wrote that Hegel had a poor understanding of history.
* Russell wrote that Hegel had a poor understanding of history.
* Progress of history was 'crablike', Hegel said.{{su|(S)}}
* The progress of history is 'crablike', Hegel said.{{su|(S)}}
* Hegel believed we should learn from ideas we dislike.{{su|(L)}}  
* Hegel believed we should learn from ideas we dislike.{{su|(L)}}
* The Trumpian era is the antithesis of the progress we have enjoyed in recent years.
* In Texas, despite Trump, there has been more recent investment in green energy than in fossil fuels.{{su|(S)}}
*:Definition: ''teleological'' relates to the doctrine of design and purpose in the material world.
*:Definition: ''teleological'' relates to the doctrine of design and purpose in the material world.
* Hegel's idea of 'spirit' seems to be a recourse to religiosity.{{su|(R)}}
* Hegel's idea of 'spirit' seems to be a recourse to religiosity.{{su|(R)}}
Line 98: Line 97:
* Hegel didn’t value the individual, but instead the collective.{{su|(A)}}
* Hegel didn’t value the individual, but instead the collective.{{su|(A)}}
* The inscription at the temple of Apollo in Delphi was 'Know thyself.'{{su|(R)}}
* The inscription at the temple of Apollo in Delphi was 'Know thyself.'{{su|(R)}}
** You’ve got to take into account where you live, too.{{su|(J)}}
* He lived through a period of immense change, witnessing the Terror and Napoleon's conquest, for example. The authorities didn’t like all his writings. French revolutionaries wanted to protect their revolution.{{su|(M)}}
* Perhaps today’s social media is a manifestation of Hegel’s theory of interconnectedness.{{su|(A)}}


John: you’ve got to know where you live too.
==== Dialectics ====


Ray: notions of reality.
* The current Trumpian era is the antithesis of the progress civilization has enjoyed in recent years.
* Jose Mourinho has frequently quoted Hegel on the truth, particularly the idea that "the truth is in the whole.{{su|(S)}}
* How does Hegel's dialectic process compare with Socratic dialogue?{{su|(S)}}
* Dialectic doesn’t necessarily mean a chain of questioning.{{su|(L)}}
* Socrates' target was often the Sophists.{{su|(S)}}
* In most of their discussions, Glaucon eventually agreed to Socrates' point.{{su|(L)}}
* The conflict resolution book{{su|[2]}} by Fisher and Ury was used at Camp David.{{su|(S)}}
* The important thing in large political problems may be the process, not the goal, because over time the goal will change.{{su|(A)}}
* Hegel's fruit tree metaphor illustrates his philosophy of history as a dialectical process, where each stage (buds, blossoms, fruit) is essential for the whole, and the final stage (fruit) reveals the true purpose of the tree.{{su|(S)}}


Margie: time of immense change. Terror. Supported Prussian state. Authorities didn’t like all his writings. French revolutionaries wanted to protect their revolution.
==== Government ====
* Do we now need new institutions to cope with the Supreme Court ruling on what a woman is?{{su|(S)}}
* The House of Lords doesn’t work, along with several other institutions.{{su|(A)}}
* We need to adapt rather than ditch our imperfect organisations.{{su|(S)}}
* We have had poor quality government for many years.{{su|(R)}}
* Is that a criticism of civil servants?{{su|(D)}}
* Good points were made in parliament during the Brexit debates, but was not reported by news providers.{{su|(A)}}
* Parliamentary select committees often present high quality debate.{{su|(D)}}
* Media played a role in this. No other MEP apart from Farage appeared on Radio Four's ''Question Time''.{{su|(L)}}
* The European Research Group never generated a single piece of research.{{su|(R)}} 
* Hegel said there is something in nationalism.{{su|(S)}}


With Hitler’s body was found the beveridge report.
====The World ====
 
* Internationalisation happened before globalisation. It generated greater trade volumes than the early days of globalisation.{{su|(R)}}
Russell: bad logics often lead to interesting outcomes.
* Germany realised it didn’t have any colonies so went about trying to acquire them.{{su|(M)}}
 
* Global corporations now undermine nation-states. Trump now imitating a backlash.{{su|(S)}}
Mourinho quoted Hegel’s on the truth.
* Corporations now know what they need better than nation-states.{{su|(A)}}
 
Steve: comparison dialectic with Socratic dialogue.
 
Linda: Dialectic doesn’t mean a chain of discussion necessarily.
 
Steve: Socrates attacking the sophists.
 
Linda: glaucon eventually agreed to a definition.
 
Conflict resolution book used at camp David.
 
Negotiation and compromise.
 
Ury and fry getting to yes.
 
Alexis: Important thing is the process, not the goal, because overtime the goal will change.
 
John: Bernstein concert at end of Berlin Wall. Beethoven freuheit is joy of heaven . Was Freude.
 
Steve: now need new institutions to cope with what is a woman ruling.
 
Alexis: hol doesn’t work, along with other institutions.
 
Steve: we need to adapt rather than ditch.
 
Ray: Poor quality government for many years.
 
David: criticising Civil servants?
 
Steve: talk in sound bites today.
 
Alexis: good points made in parliament in Brexit debates, but not reported by news providers.
 
Linda: media have a role in this. No other mep apart from farage appeared on r4 question time.
 
Ray: badenoch cited potholes as being the big Tory sales point.
 
Steve: Hegel said there is something in nationalism.
 
Linda Hegel said find the humanity in everything.
 
Socrates rather keen on will and the passions.
 
Steve: fruit tree metaphor: buds, blossom, fruit.
 
David: apple tree and plum tree. Apples but not plums will be good today.
 
Ray metaphor to bring about change. Penguin film in Argentina.
 
David: Parliamentary select committees high quality debate.
 
Ray: erg generated no research.
 
Steve: Monica videos always show her sitting next to a map on their phone.
 
John: you have to think internationally. You have to have trade.
 
Ray: internationalisation happened before globalisation. Generated more trade volumes than the early days of globalisation.
 
JUte production: invest where the good is produced. Dundee and Bangladesh.
 
Germany realised it didn’t have any colonies so went about trying to acquire them.
 
Steve: global corporations now undermine nation-states. Trump now imitating a backlash.
 
Alexis Corporations now know what they want better than nation-states.
 
Steve: would Marx be saying this is the collapse of capitalism.
 
David: good out some of ww2 was United Nations and gatt. Trump is undermining all of this.
 
Ray: Trump attack on federal reserve.
 
Trump is acting as a demagogue.
 
Weakness of presidential system. Trump as king.
 
Ripple affect across world: Putin, Netanyahu, Hungarian chap.
 
Steve: Donna holt published location of 10 immigrants in claygate.
 
Alexis: social media as manifestation Hegel’s theory of interconnectedness.
 
Next time: nature of justice. Memory surfaced to an adult of being molested in his childhood. Consequentialist view of bringing a crime from long ago. Justice for victims. Punishment? For retribution? Apologies? Do you initiate a formal legal proceedings or not? Cover ups in church. And in chile church.


==== Hegel and Trump ====
* Would Marx be saying that the mayhem unleashed by Trump signals the collapse of capitalism?{{su|(S)}}
* Some good emerged after the Second World War, in particular the United Nations and GATT. Trump is undermining all of this.{{su|(D)}}
* And Trump is now attacking the Federal Reserve.{{su|(R)}}
* So many organisations believe Trump is wrong, so Trump is trying to weaken his many enemies.{{su|(G)}}
* Trump is acting as a demagogue.{{su|(R)}} 
* It's the weakness of the US presidential system which has allowed Trump to behave as a king.{{su|(A)}}


====Fragments ====
* Copies of the Beveridge Report were found in Hitler's bunker in Berlin.{{su|(S)}}
* Leonard Bernstein famously conducted two concerts in Berlin in 1989, to celebrate the fall of the Berlin Wall. The concerts featured Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, with the lyrics to the "Ode to Joy" altered to "Ode to Freedom" in the final movement.{{su|(J)}}
* In Texas, despite Trump, there has been more recent investment in green energy than in fossil fuels.{{su|(S)}}


----
----


==== Film referenced ====
==== Book and film referenced ====
* [1] 'The Penguin Lessons' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdjEXNX1nSA
* [1] 'The Penguin Lessons' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdjEXNX1nSA
* [2] {{bookref|<!-- Author --> Roger Fisher and William Ury| <!-- Title -->'Getting to Yes'|<!-- Publisher -->Random House|<!-- Year of Publication -->1982|<!-- City of Publication -->}}


----
----

Latest revision as of 14:14, 23 April 2025

The Wells School of Philosophy

Roll Call

22nd April 2024, Hare Lane, 1000-1200 hrs:

Tutors: Linda (L), Steve (S)

Pupils: Alexis (A), David (D), John (J), Margie (M) Patricia (P), Ray (R), Robin (ℜ)

Scribe: Gavin (G)

Apologies: Colin (C), Howard (H), Viki (V)


The homework set

If you haven’t already, do have a look at this School Of Life video about Hegel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5JGE3lhuNo

I was somewhat heartened by the proposition made in it that Hegel was a terrible writer, as before looking at this I really hadn’t got a handle on him.(LINDA)

The five main ideas of Hegel outlined in this video all have great relevance to modern problems and how to view them in a way that is not demoralising. I think looking at each of these would be a useful structure for our discussion on Tuesday. There are hints here of the pendulum of history that Howard has mentioned.

Quick Summary from Gemini, the AI tool, on the relevance of Hegel to today

Hegel, a towering figure in Western philosophy, remains surprisingly relevant in the 21st century for a multitude of reasons:

1. The Dialectical Method:

  • Hegel's emphasis on the dialectical process – the interplay of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis – provides a powerful framework for understanding complex issues and driving progress. This method encourages us to consider different perspectives, acknowledge contradictions, and strive for a more comprehensive understanding.
  • In a world often characterized by polarization and entrenched positions, the Hegelian dialectic offers a way to move beyond simplistic binary oppositions and find common ground or more nuanced solutions.

2. Understanding History and Progress:

  • Hegel's philosophy of history, which views history as a rational unfolding of "Spirit" towards greater freedom and self-consciousness, can still inform our understanding of societal development.
  • While his specific teleological view might be debated, his emphasis on the historical context of ideas and institutions remains crucial for analyzing contemporary social and political issues. We can learn from the past to understand the present and shape the future.

3. The Importance of Recognition:

  • Hegel's concept of Anerkennung (recognition), the idea that our self-consciousness and identity are formed through mutual recognition with others, is increasingly relevant in our interconnected world.
  • Issues of social justice, identity politics, and the struggle for inclusion can be analyzed through the lens of recognition. Understanding the dynamics of who is recognized and who is marginalized is key to addressing inequality and fostering social cohesion.

4. Holism and Interconnectedness:

  • Hegel's philosophy emphasizes holism, the idea that reality is an interconnected whole, rather than a collection of isolated parts. This perspective resonates with contemporary concerns about ecological systems, globalization, and the interconnectedness of social and economic phenomena.
  • His approach encourages us to look beyond individual entities and consider the larger systems and relationships that shape our world.

5. Influence on Subsequent Thought:

  • Hegel's ideas have profoundly influenced a vast range of subsequent thinkers and intellectual movements, including Marxism, existentialism, phenomenology, critical theory, and even aspects of analytic philosophy. Understanding Hegel is crucial for grasping the historical development of these influential schools of thought and their continued relevance today.

6. Debates in Ethics and Politics:

  • Hegel's ethical and political philosophy, particularly his work on the state and individual freedom in the Philosophy of Right, continues to be a source of debate and inspiration for contemporary political thought.
  • His ideas are relevant to discussions about the role of the state, the nature of rights, and the relationship between individual autonomy and social order. Some see him as a precursor to communitarianism, emphasizing the social embeddedness of individuals.

7. Understanding Modernity:

  • Hegel grappled with the challenges and contradictions of modernity, including the rise of individualism, secularism, and the complexities of modern institutions. His insights into these issues can still provide valuable perspectives on the challenges we face today.

Summary

However, it's also important to note some criticisms and complexities:

  • Hegel's writing can be dense and challenging, making his work less accessible to a wider audience.
  • Some critics have accused him of being a defender of the Prussian state and of a potentially totalitarian vision of the state.
  • His teleological view of history is often seen as problematic in a more pluralistic and contingent understanding of historical processes.

In conclusion, while Hegel might seem like a philosopher of the past, his ideas continue to offer valuable frameworks for understanding the complexities of the present. His emphasis on dialectics, history, recognition, and interconnectedness, along with his profound influence on subsequent thought, ensures his enduring relevance to contemporary philosophical, social, and political discussions.

Discussion

Hegel’s Theories

  • Hegel is horrible to read.(L)
  • Hegel left us various soundbites.(P)
    'Nothing great in the world was accomplished without passion.'
    'We learn from history that we do not learn from history.'
    'Only one man ever understood me, and he didn't understand me.'
    'War is progress, peace is stagnation.'
  • Marx was much more materialistic than Hegel.(S)
  • Russell wrote that Hegel had a poor understanding of history.
  • The progress of history is 'crablike', Hegel said.(S)
  • Hegel believed we should learn from ideas we dislike.(L)
    Definition: teleological relates to the doctrine of design and purpose in the material world.
  • Hegel's idea of 'spirit' seems to be a recourse to religiosity.(R)
  • Hegel believed that the era of Christianity after the Romans was a force for good.(D)
  • Hegel's view of history seem to take no account of progress in scientific understanding or of the contribution of inventions to our wellbeing.(G)
  • Hegel's definitions of words such as 'freedom' and 'logic' were different to ours.(A)
  • Philosopher's background will inevitably influence their outlook. Mathematical philosophers such as Frege, Leibniz, and Spinoza are less colourful than Hegel.(L)
  • Hegel recognised that the roots of our knowledge are sensory. Life is nuanced. Hegel made contributions to the philosophy of mind and psychology.
  • Hegel didn’t value the individual, but instead the collective.(A)
  • The inscription at the temple of Apollo in Delphi was 'Know thyself.'(R)
    • You’ve got to take into account where you live, too.(J)
  • He lived through a period of immense change, witnessing the Terror and Napoleon's conquest, for example. The authorities didn’t like all his writings. French revolutionaries wanted to protect their revolution.(M)
  • Perhaps today’s social media is a manifestation of Hegel’s theory of interconnectedness.(A)

Dialectics

  • The current Trumpian era is the antithesis of the progress civilization has enjoyed in recent years.
  • Jose Mourinho has frequently quoted Hegel on the truth, particularly the idea that "the truth is in the whole.(S)
  • How does Hegel's dialectic process compare with Socratic dialogue?(S)
  • Dialectic doesn’t necessarily mean a chain of questioning.(L)
  • Socrates' target was often the Sophists.(S)
  • In most of their discussions, Glaucon eventually agreed to Socrates' point.(L)
  • The conflict resolution book[2] by Fisher and Ury was used at Camp David.(S)
  • The important thing in large political problems may be the process, not the goal, because over time the goal will change.(A)
  • Hegel's fruit tree metaphor illustrates his philosophy of history as a dialectical process, where each stage (buds, blossoms, fruit) is essential for the whole, and the final stage (fruit) reveals the true purpose of the tree.(S)

Government

  • Do we now need new institutions to cope with the Supreme Court ruling on what a woman is?(S)
  • The House of Lords doesn’t work, along with several other institutions.(A)
  • We need to adapt rather than ditch our imperfect organisations.(S)
  • We have had poor quality government for many years.(R)
  • Is that a criticism of civil servants?(D)
  • Good points were made in parliament during the Brexit debates, but was not reported by news providers.(A)
  • Parliamentary select committees often present high quality debate.(D)
  • Media played a role in this. No other MEP apart from Farage appeared on Radio Four's Question Time.(L)
  • The European Research Group never generated a single piece of research.(R)
  • Hegel said there is something in nationalism.(S)

The World

  • Internationalisation happened before globalisation. It generated greater trade volumes than the early days of globalisation.(R)
  • Germany realised it didn’t have any colonies so went about trying to acquire them.(M)
  • Global corporations now undermine nation-states. Trump now imitating a backlash.(S)
  • Corporations now know what they need better than nation-states.(A)

Hegel and Trump

  • Would Marx be saying that the mayhem unleashed by Trump signals the collapse of capitalism?(S)
  • Some good emerged after the Second World War, in particular the United Nations and GATT. Trump is undermining all of this.(D)
  • And Trump is now attacking the Federal Reserve.(R)
  • So many organisations believe Trump is wrong, so Trump is trying to weaken his many enemies.(G)
  • Trump is acting as a demagogue.(R)
  • It's the weakness of the US presidential system which has allowed Trump to behave as a king.(A)

Fragments

  • Copies of the Beveridge Report were found in Hitler's bunker in Berlin.(S)
  • Leonard Bernstein famously conducted two concerts in Berlin in 1989, to celebrate the fall of the Berlin Wall. The concerts featured Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, with the lyrics to the "Ode to Joy" altered to "Ode to Freedom" in the final movement.(J)
  • In Texas, despite Trump, there has been more recent investment in green energy than in fossil fuels.(S)

Book and film referenced


Choose from the Philosophy Menu Bar ▼
HOME
INDEX
Justice
6.v.25
The Good Life
20.v.25
Hume & Testimony
3.vi.25
1H25 Reflections
17.vi.25
Nietzsche 1
24.ii.25
Nietzsche 2
11.iii.25
Universal Basic Income
25.iii.25
Hegel
22.iv.25
2024 Wrap-Up
10.x.24
Democracy
14.i.25
Civilisation?
28.i.25
Compulsory Voting?
11.ii.25
Berlin and Freedom
15.x.24
Nussbaum, Sen and Capability
29.x.24
Slavery Reparations
12.xi.24
Rawls
26.xi.24
Assisted Suicide
11.vi.24
Popper and Evolution
20.viii.24
Popper continued
17.ix.24
Berlin and Romanticism
1.x.24
Marx
19.iii.24
Kant and Knowledge
16.iv.24
Kant and Morality
30.iv.24
Education and Religion
14.v.24
Hobbes & Security
23.i.24
From Locke to Mill
6.ii.24
Rousseau: Social Contract
20.ii.24
Rousseau and Education
5.iii.24
AI and Ethics
31.x.23
Aristotle and AI
14.xi.23
Autumn 2023 Review
28.xi.23
Democracy
9.i.24
Private Education
5.ix.23
The Very Elderly
19.ix.23
Justifiable Law-breaking
3.x.23
Moral Authority
17.x.23